Doctor Who: Journey's End

[andraste]

I have occasionally been annoyed with RTD's Doctor Who, but it's never made me genuinely angry before. Screw you, show!

In The War Games, the mindwipe worked because it was a horrible outcome of the situation the Doctor was forced to put his companions in. Here, the only reason it's inevitable is that Rusty wants the audience to cry. I didn't shed a tear, though, because I was too busy being FUCKING FURIOUS.

There's no clear reason that the cloned half-human Doctor would be able to survive having a Time Lord mind better than half-human DoctorDonna. There's even less reason why the Doctor should have to remove two years worth of memories of himself to take the Time Lord bits from Donna's brain. So all that character development gets undone in a flash, and Donna gains nothing from meeting the Doctor.

Every other companion - even Jamie and Zoe, who at least remember their first adventures - has been changed by their time in the TARDIS. Not always for the better, maybe, but they had the chance to learn and grow. Donna, who has learned and grown more than most, gets sent straight back to square one. It hurts even more after watching every other new series companion walk away into a brighter future. Normally I like tragic endings, but this felt completely arbitrary and tacked-on, as if they couldn't think of a better way to write out Catherine Tate.

Now, apart from that, I really enjoyed the episode. Yes, even the cheesy Rose/Extra Doctor stuff! It wouldn't normally be my cup of tea, but for reasons I may go into some other time it actually did work for me here. So, you know, I am going to do my best not to let Donna's fate sour me on the whole thing.

(And the Doctor might want to go warn Sarah Jane, Jack, Martha, etc. about Donna's exploding brain! It would be perfectly natural for one of them to remind her if they ever happened to run into her again.)

I am also reminding myself that two years ago, Rose was sealed in an alternate universe where she could never see the Doctor again, and we all saw how that turned out *g*. I choose to believe that some time, somehow Donna's memories will be safely restored.

Comments

[lilacsigil.livejournal.com]

I didn't shed a tear, though, because I was too busy being FUCKING FURIOUS

Yes. That.

[marag.livejournal.com]

Me too!

[andraste]

Yes. That.

I don't think 'desire to eviscerate RTD with a small and very blunt knife' was the emotion he was trying to invoke.

[threewalls]

Me, too. I was fine with Rose getting her happy ending until Donna got... nothing at all. Didn't we just have Turn Left to see what Donna would "become" without her time with the Doctor?

The Doctor couldn't just take his memories back to save her mind, no, he had to take Donna's memories of him, too? WTF?

[andraste]

I was fine with Rose getting her happy ending until Donna got... nothing at all.

Precisely. Rose rides off into the sunset with a Doctor of her very own, and Donna ... gets mindwiped. Fuck that.

Didn't we just have Turn Left to see what Donna would "become" without her time with the Doctor?

I would have thought so, yes.

The Doctor couldn't just take his memories back to save her mind, no, he had to take Donna's memories of him, too? WTF?

There is NO EXPLANATION given for this! I checked! It doesn't make any sense!

[threewalls]

RTD thinks happiness is a zero sum game, and since Rose gets everything she might wish for...?

For the first time, I feel like going and looking for 10/Donna fic (sex optional) and having successive thoughts of 'canon doing it wrong'. Maybe Rose was fantastic for 9, but Donna was fantastic for 10.

I wish I could think we'll only have to wait two years for Donna to get... something.

[andraste]

RTD thinks happiness is a zero sum game, and since Rose gets everything she might wish for...?

Maybe, but the rest of the assembled companion squad went away pretty cheerfully too - even Mickey was probably heading off to a cool new job with Torchwood. It's only Donna that gets royally screwed over.

For the first time, I feel like going and looking for 10/Donna fic (sex optional) and having successive thoughts of 'canon doing it wrong'. Maybe Rose was fantastic for 9, but Donna was fantastic for 10.

She was! They're my favourite new series Doctor & Companion team. (Much and all as I love Jack and Martha, too.)

I wish I could think we'll only have to wait two years for Donna to get... something

Another part of the problem is that Rusty is now handing over to Steven Moffat. I love Moffat to bits, but I'm not sure he'll be interested in picking up on RTD's dropped plot threads.

[wal-lace.livejournal.com]

The mindwipe felt like a great big fuck you to the character of Donna, especially as what she did was, basically, exactly the same as what Rose did at the end of her first series. Except Rose gets money, family and a Doctor-shaped boytoy, and Donna gets a pointless mindrape mindwipe.

There was a lot wrong with this episode, but also a lot of good stuff (Daleks speaking German, for starters), and I'd have liked it on balance if it hadn't been for that ending.

[descrime.livejournal.com]

It's because she's old and unattractive and not madly in love with the Doctor shrill. Why would anyone really care what happens to her? Obviously, Rose and Martha are the characters the tweens everyone likes best. /sarcasm

Seriously, I could not believe that bit in the Doctor's Daughter. That guard would have been lucky to snog Donna!

[andraste]

It's because she's old and unattractive and not madly in love with the Doctor shrill. Why would anyone really care what happens to her? Obviously, Rose and Martha are the characters the tweens everyone likes best. /sarcasm

Given that RTD created Donna and seems fond of her in interviews, I think what happened is that Donna got sacrificed on the alter of maximum Doctor emo.

[andraste]

The mindwipe felt like a great big fuck you to the character of Donna, especially as what she did was, basically, exactly the same as what Rose did at the end of her first series. Except Rose gets money, family and a Doctor-shaped boytoy, and Donna gets a pointless mindrape mindwipe.

I think Donna was sacrificed on the alter of maximum Doctor emo.

There was a lot wrong with this episode, but also a lot of good stuff (Daleks speaking German, for starters), and I'd have liked it on balance if it hadn't been for that ending.

Same here. The Daleks speaking German were beyond awesome. 'Extermineiren! Exterminieren!'

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

I didn't even think the 10/Rose ending was that happy, unless you're the kind of headbanging Ten/Rose shipper who cares about literally nothing in Who except for Rose finally getting a David Tennant-shaped cock stuck into her.

[wal-lace.livejournal.com]

There's another kind of Ten/Rose shipper?

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Yes. There's actually some post-Doomsday fic that portrays her as grieving the Doctor's loss, but actually growing into a hero independently of him.

[andraste]

I didn't even think the 10/Rose ending was that happy, unless you're the kind of headbanging Ten/Rose shipper who cares about literally nothing in Who except for Rose finally getting a David Tennant-shaped cock stuck into her.

That's actually why I liked it - it's more bittersweet than outright happy. Rose gets what she want, but not exactly. Clone!Doctor gets Rose, but loses the TARDIS and his home universe. The Doctor walks away from Rose, presumably forever.

I've noticed that some of the headbanging shippers are unhappy because they think Rose should have ended up with the real thing, but as that was clearly never going to happen, I think this was the best she was likely to do.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Word.

If the Christmas ep's his, I'm not watching because the last one was utter crap.

[andraste]

If the Christmas ep's his, I'm not watching because the last one was utter crap.

I am the weirdo who actually likes Voyage of the Damned *g*. But I do hope he'll let others have a go at writing some of the specials for next year - last I heard RTD was writing all four.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

[bangs head repeatedly on wall]

[andraste]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news :).

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

It means Daleks and Cybermen and London. I want other planets and new and different threats, dammit. I want Moffatt despite his past sexist comments because at least he can do those.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Looks like I'm the only one not furious at all, probably because I had half expected the amnesia solution. Given that a) Catherine Tate was available for only one season, b) there was no way Donna would have left voluntarily - she enjoyed travelling, she had a happy, angst-free relationship with the Doctor, and c) amnesia can be undone far more easily than death if they can get Catherine Tate back. Doesn't mean it didn't break my heart, but I understood it. And I didn't see the character development in vain, either. We know what Donna can become, she did it twice, she will do a third time.

*off to the airport*

[andraste]

Looks like I'm the only one not furious at all, probably because I had half expected the amnesia solution.

Given that the audience appreciation index was an outstanding 91, I'd say you're not alone *g*. Keeping an eye on who_daily, fandom seems divided on this one.

Given that a) Catherine Tate was available for only one season, b) there was no way Donna would have left voluntarily - she enjoyed travelling, she had a happy, angst-free relationship with the Doctor, and c) amnesia can be undone far more easily than death if they can get Catherine Tate back. Doesn't mean it didn't break my heart, but I understood it.

I am also glad that Donna didn't die! I do not think that would have been a good ending, either. But I think there are more options than death or completely forgetting every moment she spent with the Doctor. Off the top of my head ...

a) Given that they knew from the beginning of the season that they'd only have Catherine Tate for one season, they didn't have to set her up as another companion who wanted to travel with the Doctor forever. Personally, I liked that aspect of her characterisation and wouldn't have changed it, but they could have taken her in another direction had they wanted to. After her experiences in The Fires of Pompeii and Planet of the Ood, I certainly wouldn't have blamed Donna if she'd decided that her travels with the Doctor should end at some point. She could have then decided to do any number of things - left to work for UNIT, found another planet she liked, fallen in love, founded Noble Enterprises for real, decided after Forest of the Dead that she wanted to have children ...

b) They could have had the Doctor remove Donna's Time Lord aspect without giving her total amnesia about her time with him. It's only the technobabble that irretrievably connects the two. Having him fully remove her Time Lord mind instead of just suppressing it at the cost of her memory would have been equally plausible, IMHO. This could have been sufficiently traumatic that Donna would have left voluntarily. Still a tragic ending, but one that would have given Donna more agency in her own fate.

c) The DoctorDonna could have decided that one TARDIS was too small for the two of them, and taken off into the universe on her own. OK, not very likely *g*.

d) The DoctorDonna could have regenerated! Hey, that hand grew a whole new half-human Doctor and rewrote Donna's mind, who knows what it could have done to her DNA?

I have no problem with horrible, tragic things happening to characters I love. I could hardly be a Blake's 7 or Londo Mollari fan otherwise :). I just really don't think this ending emerged naturally from the story that proceeded it. To me, it felt tacked on for the sake of maximum Doctor emo. Donna didn't get any choice about what happened to her, and the Doctor didn't have any choice about how to deal with it.

And I didn't see the character development in vain, either. We know what Donna can become, she did it twice, she will do a third time.

I'm sure she will. For the Doctor, her family, and the audience Donna's character development had a huge impact. Yet until such time as her memories are restored, it has no impact on Donna herself! And I want her to know that she's the most important woman in the universe :(.

As it currently stands, all she's gained from her time in the TARDIS is a Swiss cheese memory - how are her family going to explain to everyone why she's suddenly forgotten what happened at her own wedding? - and a mother who might finally acknowledge how brilliant she is. The latter is not trivial, but it hardly makes up for the former.

Now, mind you, I don't agree with those fans who are criticising the Doctor for choosing to wipe Donna's mind instead of standing there and watching her die. It was the equivalent of a life-saving medical procedure, and I wouldn't have expected him to do anything different. I'm just frustrated that the story put him in that position in the first place.

[quixotic-sense.livejournal.com]

OMG DONNA. I was half-crying, half-swearing at the screen. I hurt for her, and the loss of everything she had. @^&!%*!%FUCKERS. I think I shall remain cosily in denial at the last 10 minutes.

That said, I was quite pleased at the thought of Martha and possibly Mickey joining Torchwood. What tipped me over from being sad to being bloody furious, as it turned out, was reading the reactions of some TW fans whinging about how the arrival of Martha and Mickey means less development/time for their beloved babies. Sigh.

[andraste]

I hurt for her, and the loss of everything she had. @^&!%*!%FUCKERS. I think I shall remain cosily in denial at the last 10 minutes.

Luckily, there is plenty of denial fic filling up the internet *g*.

That said, I was quite pleased at the thought of Martha and possibly Mickey joining Torchwood.

This is going to be awesome! I'm especially pleased that we're going to get to see more of Jack and Mickey snarking at each other, and of course more Martha is always for the win.

What tipped me over from being sad to being bloody furious, as it turned out, was reading the reactions of some TW fans whinging about how the arrival of Martha and Mickey means less development/time for their beloved babies. Sigh.

I had not seen that, and my reaction is unprintable. I get the impression some people would like Torchwood to be fifty minutes a week of Jack and Ianto making out.

(And, OK, if they wanted to do a spin-off that was just fifty minutes of John Barrowman making out with a different hot person every week, I would probably watch that. But I like Torchwood to explore a variety of characters and relationships!)

[fryadvocate.livejournal.com]

Essentially, the whole, Rose and the Daleks keep coming back thing is the only reason I'm no longer spitting with rage.

What gets me the most is that it wasn't really a choice he was giving her, a, "Wipe your memory or die, you choose." He just did it even though she clearly wanted to keep the memories.

... and yeah, even after a morning of sleep, I don't understand the theory behind it. Is it supposed to be like a chameleon circuit, doesn't wake up until something jogs her memory? Otherwise, it makes no sense, because she still has ALL of it inside her head, just hidden.

[andraste]

Essentially, the whole, Rose and the Daleks keep coming back thing is the only reason I'm no longer spitting with rage.

Here's hoping Donna will continue the now grand tradition of new series companions and refuse to go away for too long.

... and yeah, even after a morning of sleep, I don't understand the theory behind it. Is it supposed to be like a chameleon circuit, doesn't wake up until something jogs her memory? Otherwise, it makes no sense, because she still has ALL of it inside her head, just hidden.

After several days of contemplating it, I still don't see what was wrong with removing her Time Lord aspect without taking the rest of her memories. Or why seeing the Doctor at the end was apparently OK, but telling her about him wouldn't be.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

I am also reminding myself that two years ago, Rose was sealed in an alternate universe where she could never see the Doctor again, and we all saw how that turned out *g*. I choose to believe that some time, somehow Donna's memories will be safely restored.


Yes, that's what I'm hoping and - given the series' track record - half expecting. Though if it's true that Catherine Tate was available only for the one series, I suppose that rather puts a damper on that idea.

[andraste]

Yes, that's what I'm hoping and - given the series' track record - half expecting. Though if it's true that Catherine Tate was available only for the one series, I suppose that rather puts a damper on that idea.

I imagine she might be able to fit some future Christmas special into her busy schedule - after all, that's how the whole thing got started *g*.

[nic]

I'm positive she'll be back in some form - which is why they kept her alive. It's sci-fi; memories can easily be restored. That's what I'm holding on to.