The *other* reason we don't see as many condoms in fanfic as we should ...

[andraste]

You know, sometimes the characters are (in the past/in the future/on the astral plane/having interspecies tentacle sex/evil giant robots/omnipotent) and condoms just don't seem relevant to the situation. And other times, the characters are idiots.

I mean I care deeply about whether the characters in the story I'm writing practice safe sex, but I'm not entirely sure that they do. It's the mid-eighties, so they definitely should use protection. But given that they walk around with nuclear accelerators strapped to their backs, unsafe sex is probably not high on the list of stupid things that are likely to get them killed.

Probably I will solve this dilemma by putting this argument into the story, but it occurred to me that this has cross-fandom applications. Maybe one of the reasons condom use isn't universal in fanfiction is that many of the characters we write about take ludicrous risks of other kinds.

Now, I think it's entirely in character for Buffy Summers to endanger her life fighting vampires every night but demand that her lovers (well, the human ones) use condoms. Taking risks in one area of life doesn't necessarily mean that you'll take them in another. But if you're stuck on a desert island with invisible monsters, is not catching an STD really that much of a priority? If you're with the brain-eating serial killer who murdered your father, are you actually going to try to discuss safer sex?

Comments

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Buffy does canonically use condoms if you look at Where the Wild Things Are. I really hope she did with Angel and Spike given that both of them could probably give her Darla's syphilis.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

She also uses condoms in The I in Team (someone was really trying to be responsible in the production crew, I guess), the first time she has sex with Riley.

Syphilis: would a virus survive that long? (I always thought the reason why Darla still has it is because the spell that brought her back resurrected her original human body, not her vampire one.)

Otoh, poor Cordelia is also an advertisment on why one should use condoms, given both her one night stand in s1 and her Jasmine-dictated night with Connor results in immediate conception. I don't rewatch much of s3 due to my issues with some, but didn't she use some sort of magical security stuff before sleeping with Groo?

[andraste]

Otoh, poor Cordelia is also an advertisment on why one should use condoms, given both her one night stand in s1 and her Jasmine-dictated night with Connor results in immediate conception.

You would think she'd have learned her lesson the first time! I do wonder if she was using some other form of contraception that magic was able to work around on those occasions.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Could be, considering the first occasion involved a demon pimp and the second a fallen Power That Was, but then again, on the second occasion, she was already half controlled by someone else, and what was left of Cordelia didn't expect to survive, so I doubt she would have bothered with birth control. Poor Cordy.

[qodarkness.livejournal.com]

Just a random note from Montreal: Cordelia specifically states that her sex with surname-guy (her first experience) was safe sex. Which was part of the reason she was so distressed by her condition.

I'd love to explore more of this topic but have hostel internet time, so not going to happen yet . . .

A

[andraste]

I really hope she did with Angel and Spike given that both of them could probably give her Darla's syphilis.

Do we have any canon evidence one way or the other one whether vampires can carry diseases? Darla has syphilis when she comes back in her human body, but I'm not sure if Vampire!Darla would have still had it.

I think we can rule out condoms in Smashed, at least, since I can't think of a reason either party would have been carrying any at the time.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

But if you're stuck on a desert island with invisible monsters, is not catching an STD really that much of a priority?

Ah, but at least the women on that island have an additional motive to demand their male lovers should wear condoms. Season 3 makes it quite clear that pregnancy = death sentence if they didn't get pregnant before setting foot on that island.

Also, given that Sawyer has admitted to Jack and Kate he slept with a prostitute in s1, it would make sense for either party to demand condoms if they sleep with him.

Otoh, I don't think it would be an issue if Danielle slept with either Sayid or Locke, due to the emotional and mental state of all parties involved...

If you're with the brain-eating serial killer who murdered your father, are you actually going to try to discuss safer sex?

Well, he might have as long as he still thought the guy was Zane or, in the 5YGverse, Nathan.*g*

(Also, I bet condoms were used when Jessica slept with actual Nathan in the realverse.)

But yeah, otherwise I doubt it would be an issue in a Sylar/Mohinder story. Hiro and Ando wouldn't have to bother either, due to presumed lack of sexual activities elsewhere. Peter, being the little black dress of Heroes, can be plausibly written as thinking of it (he's a nurse, after all) or ignoring the nessecity (swept away by emotions), depending on whom he gets paired with.

[andraste]

Ah, but at least the women on that island have an additional motive to demand their male lovers should wear condoms. Season 3 makes it quite clear that pregnancy = death sentence if they didn't get pregnant before setting foot on that island.

Oooo, that sounds interesting. I hope nothing bad happens to Sun!

Also, given that Sawyer has admitted to Jack and Kate he slept with a prostitute in s1, it would make sense for either party to demand condoms if they sleep with him.

Personally, I don't think I'd go near Sawyer without a Hazmat suit *g*. Who knows where he's been and what he's picked up?

Otoh, I don't think it would be an issue if Danielle slept with either Sayid or Locke, due to the emotional and mental state of all parties involved...

You will not be surprised to hear that I was thinking of Danielle/Locke when I made that remark *g*. I think with a show like Lost it depends very much on the characters. Depending on his state of mind, Jack would probably be sensible and use condoms. (Or practice non-penetrative sex if they'd run out. I wonder if those food drops include boxes of Trojans ...?) Locke would be more likely to trust to the will of the island, at least up to the point where I last caught up with him.

Well, he might have as long as he still thought the guy was Zane or, in the 5YGverse, Nathan.*g*

Good point! In that situation, it would go something like this:

Mohinder: *long speech about safer sex in the same tone of voice he uses to monologue about evolution*

Sylar: *contemplates killing Mohinder, self. Agrees to condom so Mohinder will shut up*

(Also, I bet condoms were used when Jessica slept with actual Nathan in the realverse.)

Absolutely. Apart from anything else, Nathan doesn't want any more illegitimate offspring.

But yeah, otherwise I doubt it would be an issue in a Sylar/Mohinder story.

Should Mohinder ever be in a mental state where he'd (willingly) have sex with Sylar, I feel safe in saying that STDs will be the last thing he needs to worry about.

Hiro and Ando wouldn't have to bother either, due to presumed lack of sexual activities elsewhere.

They should be safe until the day when humans can catch viruses from too much internet porn *g*.

Peter, being the little black dress of Heroes, can be plausibly written as thinking of it (he's a nurse, after all) or ignoring the nessecity (swept away by emotions), depending on whom he gets paired with.

Also, he has Claire's healing factor. Condoms would be useful as contraception for both of them, but they could well be immune to disease.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

You will not be surprised to hear that I was thinking of Danielle/Locke when I made that remark *g*.

Yay!

Locke would be more likely to trust to the will of the island, at least up to the point where I last caught up with him.

Oh, that attitude won't change later on.*g* The character other than Danielle I could see him having sex with is a mindmessing sociopath somewhat frustrated about Locke's greater connection to the island and the island's healing abilities; I could see him suggest condoms just for LOLs, not as part of a serious precaution, and otherwise just skip them.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

I could see him suggest condoms just for LOLs

Oh, god. Why am I actually capable of hearing that in my head?

And what is it with the deeply messed-up antagonist pairings lately?!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, god. Why am I actually capable of hearing that in my head?

Because the internet has corrupted us both?

And what is it with the deeply messed-up antagonist pairings lately?!

Well, come on. They already had chemistry back in season 2. And Drew Goddard totally knew what he was doing when giving them more scenes together in his episodes in s3! We're just a good audience...

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

*whimpers*

[andraste]

The character other than Danielle I could see him having sex with is a mindmessing sociopath somewhat frustrated about Locke's greater connection to the island and the island's healing abilities; I could see him suggest condoms just for LOLs, not as part of a serious precaution, and otherwise just skip them.

Based on this and your conversation with AstroGirl, I have the feeling that I'm going to enjoy Season Three *g*.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I must admit I haven't watched the first half of s3 yet, which supposedly is all about the Kate/Sawyer/Jack triangle, but the second one rocks, imo (and hads lots of Locke, who is part of the far more interesting triangle of Locke/Island/Ben (aka Henry Gale from s2)).

[andraste]

I must admit I haven't watched the first half of s3 yet, which supposedly is all about the Kate/Sawyer/Jack triangle, but the second one rocks, imo (and hads lots of Locke, who is part of the far more interesting triangle of Locke/Island/Ben (aka Henry Gale from s2)).

I am going to be so, so tempted to fast-forward through Kate/Sawyer/Jack and just watch the interesting bits, but I'm glad that there is lots of Locke to look forward to! Locke/Island/Ben for the win.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

Excellent. Write us some fic when you're done watching it. ;)

[andraste]

Excellent. Write us some fic when you're done watching it. ;)

I'll try, although for some reason I seem incapable of actually writing Lost fic. All my bunnies for that fandom are vid bunnies! Maybe Season Three will change that, though.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Good point! In that situation, it would go something like this:

Mohinder: *long speech about safer sex in the same tone of voice he uses to monologue about evolution*

Sylar: *contemplates killing Mohinder, self. Agrees to condom so Mohinder will shut up*

This is totally how it would go.

Absolutely. Apart from anything else, Nathan doesn't want any more illegitimate offspring.

Which only leaves the question: would he use condoms with a man, too? *veg*

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

This is totally how it would go.

That's probably the only reason he'd bother. Anybody who eats brains is clearly not particularly contentious about disease prevention. Mmm, Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease...

[andraste]

That's probably the only reason he'd bother. Anybody who eats brains is clearly not particularly contentious about disease prevention. Mmm, Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease...

Psycopaths are generally bad at risk assessment, as this behaviour illustrates. Sylar is just asking for a horrible disease *g*.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

Sylar's asking for a lot of things, but that's definitely one of them. :)

(And how did I let my spellchecker mangle my attempt at "conscientious" into "contentious" in that comment above? *scratches head*)

[andraste]

Which only leaves the question: would he use condoms with a man, too? *veg*

Probably depends on the man. With Hiro? I think so, because I see Nathan as being rather protective of him. He'd probably use them out of concern for Hiro's health rather than his own, unless he had a recent clean STD test.

With Peter? This is another one of those pairings where condom use would really be the least of the characters' worries *g*. I vote no, because if Nathan is having sex with his brother, I somehow doubt either of them is thinking this through.

... and Nathan not being the Little Black Dress of fandom that his brother is, does he even get slashed with anyone other than those two?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Your arguments are convincing.*g*

... and Nathan not being the Little Black Dress of fandom that his brother is, does he even get slashed with anyone other than those two?

There is some Nathan/Linderman and some Nathan/Mohinder (err, not Sylar-as-Nathan/Mohinder, but Real!Nathan/Mohinder), but I don't think I've spotted more than two or so stories of each.

[galamb-borong.livejournal.com]

It suddenly strikes me that all the really graphic sex scenes I've written have involved someone with a healing factor. Weird. So no safe sex discussions yet.

Sorry, just a random stranger from fandom land who happened to drop in...

[andraste]

It suddenly strikes me that all the really graphic sex scenes I've written have involved someone with a healing factor. Weird. So no safe sex discussions yet.

Yeah, that's definitely a get-out-of-condoms-free card there. Wolverine does not need to worry about catching STDs.

Sorry, just a random stranger from fandom land who happened to drop in...

Random strangers are always welcome here!

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I just polled the characters I last wrote a sex scene for, and apparently the Master thinks the idea of the Doctor giving him a venereal disease is the single funniest thing he's ever heard in his life. The Doctor's just looking hurt. :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

ROTFLOL.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

He says it'd even be worth having to regenerate, just for the sheer amount of shit he could give the Doctor about it for the rest of time. :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

See, it's distressingly easy to justify. I mean, there's Jack! (Who canonically sleeps with everything that moves and thus is bound to have caught some diseases, even if he personally can't be harmed by them.) Picture the Doctor feeling guilty because of the whole fixed fact/having left Jack behind factor, and well, err, frustrated about the whole Master situation during Sound of Drums, he might have been persuaded for some quick tension relief/apology sex with Jack. Then he meets the Master again...

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

Oh, god. I am not writing this. I am not. But if somebody else wants to... *looks around hopefully* :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Why do your denials lack conviction?

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

Gaaaah! Seriously, I'm not. Especially not the Jack thing, because that'd be a whole 'nother story all by itself!

I just wish the Master would stop sitting in my brain being all amused at it. He seems to think it would be a great form of revenge for the mind games the Doctor was playing with him in aforementioned previous story, which is Insane Time Lord Logic if I've ever heard any. He's all, like, "Oooh, Doctor, it burns. Every time, it reminds me of you. I'm thinking of not getting it treated. I could just let it kill me. Don't you think that would be appropriate?" And he smirks. And the Doctor has to try very hard not to hit him.

(Erm, there. That's all you're getting for me. I mean it. I have to go and finish writing my Multiverse fic. Which features no STDs whatsoever.)

[andraste]

Dude, I would pay money to read fanfic where that happened *g*.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

I am distressingly tempted to write it. Fortunately, I don't think I actually have time. :)

[andraste]

Between you and apathocles, I am seriously considering a fanfic challenge *g*. (Of the low pressure variety.)

[apathocles.livejournal.com]

Having now encountered the Master in canon, I feel that the only thing I can do is ENCOURAGE YOU.

[apathocles.livejournal.com]

... Now I'm pondering a mecha STD-equivalent. Damnit. All your connection ports rust off? (I know TFs are supposed to be disease-proof, but, well, if they can catch cosmic rust, then they can catch STDs, by gum. Bet Starscream's crawling with 'em.)

At the very least, it'd probably be easy to tell mechs who have sex (of the interfacing variety, at least) a whole lot, because their bits would probably be worn/broken. Unless they keep them perfectly maintained. Possibly this is something I shouldn't contemplate further?

If you're with the brain-eating serial killer who murdered your father, are you actually going to try to discuss safer sex?

Truly, we debate the great philosophical questions of our time.

[andraste]

(I know TFs are supposed to be disease-proof, but, well, if they can catch cosmic rust, then they can catch STDs, by gum. Bet Starscream's crawling with 'em.)

*dead from laughing*

Between this and AstroGirl's Doctor/Master idea? I am seriously considering a fanfic challenge *g*.

Truly, we debate the great philosophical questions of our time.

I am picturing the look on Sylar's face if Mohinder actually tried to have a discussion about safe sex with him, and thinking that the answer is 'no'. (Unless, as Selena points out above, he didn't know Sylar was Sylar at the time.)

[apathocles.livejournal.com]

DO IT. DO IT. DO IT.

[greenygal.livejournal.com]

I mean I care deeply about whether the characters in the story I'm writing practice safe sex, but I'm not entirely sure that they do. It's the mid-eighties, so they definitely should use protection. But given that they walk around with nuclear accelerators strapped to their backs, unsafe sex is probably not high on the list of stupid things that are likely to get them killed.

--and right about here is where I lost the ability to pay attention to your actual point and went "Andraste is writing Real Ghostbusters? Oh my god!" Or is there another fandom with portable nuclear accelerators?

(Actually, I can definitely envision Egon lecturing Peter on safe sex, regardless of whether Egon was personally involved. Which would be fine except they live in kind of close quarters and about the time that Ray and Winston started putting in their two cents would be when Peter would flee the building.)

[andraste]

--and right about here is where I lost the ability to pay attention to your actual point and went "Andraste is writing Real Ghostbusters? Oh my god!" Or is there another fandom with portable nuclear accelerators?

As far as I know, there are no other characters in all fandom stupid enough to turn them into backpacks. So yes, I am writing RGB *g*. My other favourite slash eighties 'toon!

(Actually, I can definitely envision Egon lecturing Peter on safe sex, regardless of whether Egon was personally involved. Which would be fine except they live in kind of close quarters and about the time that Ray and Winston started putting in their two cents would be when Peter would flee the building.)

Yeah, that's pretty much how the conversation is going in the story, except that Peter, er, really isn't in a position to flee *g*.

[yma2.livejournal.com]

I see what you mean. I don't really write smut but I think the issue wuold depend on very much the fandom, characters and situation you were writing.

I think, if you are refering to Mohinder, it would be very much IC of him to think about it, and be concerned about it. Whether he would mention it or press the issue then... I don't know. Depends on the situation.

[andraste]

I see what you mean. I don't really write smut but I think the issue wuold depend on very much the fandom, characters and situation you were writing.

Sometimes you even get situations where you don't know if condoms exist in the universe - I had that dilemma with a Trigun story once. I have no idea if they have condoms on Planet Gunsmoke!

I think, if you are refering to Mohinder, it would be very much IC of him to think about it, and be concerned about it. Whether he would mention it or press the issue then... I don't know. Depends on the situation.

Indeed. If he's in a mental state where he's willingly having sex with Sylar - and he knows that's it's Sylar, not Zane or Nate - I think he'd have worse problems than STDs to worry about.