Weird Babylon 5 Alternative Universe #1

[andraste]

The whole internet seems to be watching Babylon 5 right now, either because it's streaming on HBO in the U.S. or because they bought the shiny remastered version on iTunes, and I am not an exception.

First thought inspired thereby: it really is shiny and remastered! You can see the actual textures of the fabrics and everyone's fillings and even the nineties CGI looks much nicer. JMS is right when he says it looks better than the DVDs, so I'm thinking I dodged a bullet by not actually finishing that Brothers In Arms remaster before now because I'd just have to do it all over again again and that would have sucked.

Second thought: JMS has been posting lots of B5 thoughts on his twitter, which is always delightful. Favourite story so far is about THAT scene in Parliament of Dreams:

Neither the director nor Peter warned the rest of the cast that he was going to climb up on the table in order to get their authentic reactions. Watch Claudia in particular as she loses it. (They also didn't warn set dec which is why the table threatens to collapse.)

To which I can only say: <3 <3 <3.

Third thought, brought about by Midnight On the Firing Line - there are so many tiny events that change everything that happens after them, and one of them is Londo running straight into Talia when he's getting into the lift and she's getting out. If he'd just been watching where he was going, maybe he'd have actually made it to G'Kar and shot him.

I mean, not that he'd necessarily have succeeded in killing him - G'Kar was the revolutionary guerrilla here, after all, while Londo was busy being a hotshot pilot and presumably spending a limited amount of time shooting people with handheld weapons. Either way, though, Londo's ambassadorial career would have come to an abrupt end, and the Centauri-Narn war would probably have kicked off without Mr. Morden even needing to do anything.

Fourth thought: gee, Kosh, how did that 'leave the Centauri and Narn alone and let them die out' thing work out for the Vorlons when the Shadows decided to start a war? (I mean, it seems like he changes his mind a bit later when he inspires G'Kar's new career choice, but still. He is not always right about this stuff.)

Comments

[selenak]

Either way, though, Londo's ambassadorial career would have come to an abrupt end, and the Centauri-Narn war would probably have kicked off without Mr. Morden even needing to do anything.

True, but given their respective military situation at this point, and the fact the Centauri would have had no Shadow backup and no tolerant human government humoring them, and the fact that Emperor Turhan and Prime Minister Malachi both were not eager for war with the Narn, I don't think it would have lasted long. Either the Narn would have won, or Turhan would have just handed over Londo to the Narn for punishment. Neither outcome would have done much for the Shadow's grand chaos scheme.

Still would have worked out better for either people than if G'Kar had succeeded in his goal of assassinating Turhan when Turhan was about to make his grand apology gesture. (Another situation where the incredible coincidence of Turhan having a heart attack changes everything.) At this point, the Centauri were armed to the teeth, they had the Shadow backup, and they would have had public sympathy on their side. Presto even worse defeat and occupation for the Narn, and hardly any Centauri doubting this war was a good idea.

Kosh is clearly Minbari and human fixated. :)

[andraste]

Either the Narn would have won, or Turhan would have just handed over Londo to the Narn for punishment. Neither outcome would have done much for the Shadow's grand chaos scheme.

I wonder if someone else in the Centauri power structure would have found themselves meeting with a nice young human who suddenly wanted to 'help' them with their Narn problem, or if the Shadows would have decided to let it go and start some other war, some other place. (Try to get the Narns to start some empire building once the Centauri were out of the way? Get disgruntled warrior caste Minbari to fight the humans again?)

At this point, the Centauri were armed to the teeth, they had the Shadow backup, and they would have had public sympathy on their side. Presto even worse defeat and occupation for the Narn, and hardly any Centauri doubting this war was a good idea.

I'd never thought of that, but yikes, that would have been a very unpleasant scenario. Lucky G'Kar would have been dead and not in a position to know how much worse he'd managed to make everything. (Also: if G'Kar doesn't get wind of the imminent apology, no running off to buy Londo a drink. While Londo has plenty further to fall at that point, I do think it makes a big difference in the long run that he knows there was a chance for peace and he's the one that screwed it up, not G'Kar.)

Kosh is clearly Minbari and human fixated. :)

We know why the Vorlons lost interest in the Narn, but I've always wondered what it was that made them write off the Centauri. Is it just that the empire went into decline? They've actually got more psychic powers that everyone else, and they're more widely distributed to boot, since all Centauri are a little bit precognitive vis-à-vis their own death.

[selenak]

I wonder if someone else in the Centauri power structure would have found themselves meeting with a nice young human who suddenly wanted to 'help' them with their Narn problem

Well, Refa comes to mind. As does Cartagia. Though I like the idea of disgruntled warrior caste Minbari!

While Londo has plenty further to fall at that point, I do think it makes a big difference in the long run that he knows there was a chance for peace and he's the one that screwed it up, not G'Kar.

Very true. And I've always thought one reason why G'Kar was eventually able to forgive Londo was because he's aware that despite much misfortune thereafter for him (and the Narn), the universe truly gave him a break at this point, because dead or not, he'd have had the blood of the ensueing war on his hands.

We know why the Vorlons lost interest in the Narn, but I've always wondered what it was that made them write off the Centauri. Is it just that the empire went into decline? They've actually got more psychic powers that everyone else, and they're more widely distributed to boot, since all Centauri are a little bit precognitive vis-à-vis their own death.

Possibly because the infighting and power jocking of the nobility already makes them prone to chaos in the Vorlons' eyes, as opposed to the very structured Minbari with their three caste system, and actually the way the telepaths are organized with the humans (separated from the rest of humanity, with limited civil rights and prepared as weapons from childhood onwards) works for their long term goal (an orderly universe, a defeat of the Shadows once they return) far better than the more evenly distributed psychic gifts with the Centauri, where telepaths might work for individual noble houses but aren't trained to be weapons as such, and the bit of precognition each Centauri has can't be weaponized?

[andraste]

Though I like the idea of disgruntled warrior caste Minbari!

I got as far as Deathwalker yesterday and was reminded that the Wind Swords sheltered a genocidal war criminal because she offered them weapons of mass destruction, so it seems like Morden would not have had too much trouble persuading that particular faction to do what he wanted as long as nobody found out who he was actually working for.

Very true. And I've always thought one reason why G'Kar was eventually able to forgive Londo was because he's aware that despite much misfortune thereafter for him (and the Narn), the universe truly gave him a break at this point, because dead or not, he'd have had the blood of the ensueing war on his hands.

Yes - for all that he tells Londo that he's a better person (and for all that it's true by that point) he knows damn well that he did not start out that way. Given his own reply to Morden, the assassination plan and his actions in Dust To Dust - not to mention all of the various more petty bad things he does earlier on - he knows he could have gone another way if circumstances had only been different.

ossibly because the infighting and power jocking of the nobility already makes them prone to chaos in the Vorlons' eyes, as opposed to the very structured Minbari with their three caste system, and actually the way the telepaths are organized with the humans (separated from the rest of humanity, with limited civil rights and prepared as weapons from childhood onwards) works for their long term goal (an orderly universe, a defeat of the Shadows once they return) far better than the more evenly distributed psychic gifts with the Centauri, where telepaths might work for individual noble houses but aren't trained to be weapons as such, and the bit of precognition each Centauri has can't be weaponized?

Yes, that makes sense. The Minbari and the Psi Corps (if not humans in general) are a lot easier to herd than dozens of noble houses all trying to stab each other all over the place.

[vilakins]

Where are you streaming it? Do you have HBO; I don't think we have here.

I do have the DVDs, but still...

[andraste]

I bought it on iTunes - we don't have HBO here either.