Actual Comment Observed After 'Day of the Astronaut'

[andraste]

Forgive me my crankiness, for I have THE PLAGUE, but I have actually seen this comment or variations on it more than once now:

"Isn't the Doctor meant to be mourning Rose?"

To which I can only respond: ARRRRRRGH!!!

Leaving aside that he cheerfully snogged Reinette while Rose was still travelling in the TARDIS, then left her in another universe with his half-human clone ... it has been years. Even humans move on with their lives after losing someone they care about, and Time Lords even more so since they regenerate.

It's not that the Doctor doesn't stay attached to his previous companions, but I do think the pain of losing them tends to fade even though the love remains. I wouldn't expect the Fourth Doctor to still be pining after Jo Grant, or the Eighth Doctor to spend all his time kidnapping different versions of Ace from alternate universes because he can't stand being without her. (Something the Seventh Doctor did in the New Adventures after she was killed, and it would explain a lot of the things about Ace's wonky personal timeline in the spin-offs if he did this more than once ...)

The Doctor has loved a lot of people across his eleven lives, and I'm sure part of him misses all of them, but that doesn't mean he's not going to love new people! More than one at a time, even.

Comments

[jhall1]

"Isn't the Doctor meant to be mourning Rose?"

The cynical response would be: "Not since RTD left the show, thankfully."

I suspect that part of the problem is that many of those who only came to the show when it restarted after the long intermission don't really appreciate that the Doctor had had a couple of dozen companions before Rose, and so view her as being the first and hence somehow "special".

[andraste]

The cynical response would be: "Not since RTD left the show, thankfully."

Quite *g*.

I suspect that part of the problem is that many of those who only came to the show when it restarted after the long intermission don't really appreciate that the Doctor had had a couple of dozen companions before Rose, and so view her as being the first and hence somehow "special".

Indeed. I thought School Reunion was meant to clear that up for everyone, but apparently it didn't work on some people.

[lilacsigil]

!!!

It's been years for us in real time! And I thought the episode with Ten and Sarah Jane canonically cleared up all this "Rose is the only one!" thing!

[andraste]

It's been years for us in real time!

The Doctor: apparently way better at moving on than some of his fans.

And I thought the episode with Ten and Sarah Jane canonically cleared up all this "Rose is the only one!" thing!

Apparently some people didn't get the memo. Even after he kept going back and hugging Sarah Jane and then Jo turned up again as well!

[selenak]

What, in reply to the River snogging? Good lord, as Giles would say.

In addition to everything you said: even the New Who only people must have watched Girl in the Fireplace and School Reunion. And if they branched out to SJA, they got (in the RTD written two parter, btw) a lovely list of companions and what they were/are doing post Doctor with their fabulous lives, as well as canon confirmation that Ten, before regenerating, looked them all up. Because, gasp, he loves them all.

[andraste]

What, in reply to the River snogging?

Yes. Because apparently the Doctor is never allowed to kiss anyone else, ever, after saying goodbye to Rose.

In addition to everything you said: even the New Who only people must have watched Girl in the Fireplace and School Reunion. And if they branched out to SJA, they got (in the RTD written two parter, btw) a lovely list of companions and what they were/are doing post Doctor with their fabulous lives, as well as canon confirmation that Ten, before regenerating, looked them all up. Because, gasp, he loves them all.

You would think that after six years even people who have never seen any of the classic series would have absorbed the idea that the Doctor is capable of loving multiple people. RTD has probably been the writer to push this most strongly! (I mean, say what you will about the man's own Rose issues, he gave us Donna. The Doctor evidently loves her just as much, albeit in a different way.)

And on the romantic side of things, I guess they've also conveniently forgotten that in the time between leaving Rose and now the Doctor canonically shagged Elizabeth the First. As mentioned in an RTD episode.

[astrogirl]

he Doctor evidently loves her just as much, albeit in a different way.

Silly person! Love doesn't count unless it's romantic and sexual in nature and lasts forever and ever and ever and excludes everyone else! Or so I have learned from multiple fandoms, anyway. (Man, I really wish I had my "eyeroll" icon on Dreamwidth. Well, I'll just have to let John Locke stand in for Rose instead.)

And on the romantic side of things, I guess they've also conveniently forgotten that in the time between leaving Rose and now the Doctor canonically shagged Elizabeth the First.

In their defense (sort of), I suppose sticking your fingers in your ears and going, "la la la, I can't hear you" at whatever bits of canon you really don't like is a grand old Whovian tradition, and one I cheerfully indulge in, myself. Still, though...

[andraste]

Silly person! Love doesn't count unless it's romantic and sexual in nature and lasts forever and ever and ever and excludes everyone else! Or so I have learned from multiple fandoms, anyway.

I often think that Doctor/Rose OTP 'shippers might be happier in, like, any other fandom on the planet.

(Man, I really wish I had my "eyeroll" icon on Dreamwidth. Well, I'll just have to let John Locke stand in for Rose instead.)

Heh. Locke is the most specialer!

In their defense (sort of), I suppose sticking your fingers in your ears and going, "la la la, I can't hear you" at whatever bits of canon you really don't like is a grand old Whovian tradition, and one I cheerfully indulge in, myself. Still, though...

Yeah, I have to admit that I like to pretend that, say, Time-Flight fell through a crack in the universe. I'm not sure how people manage to ignore thirty-odd seasons of television where the Doctor has run around the universe loving poeple other than Rose, though.

[astrogirl]

I often think that Doctor/Rose OTP 'shippers might be happier in, like, any other fandom on the planet.

In fairness, I suppose some of them really had no idea what they were getting into. :)

Heh. Locke is the most specialer!

Locke would make an interesting companion. Yeah, "interesting" is probably the word for it. :)

I'm not sure how people manage to ignore thirty-odd seasons of television where the Doctor has run around the universe loving poeple other than Rose, though.

The capacity of the human mind for denial is extraordinary. :)

[andraste]

In fairness, I suppose some of them really had no idea what they were getting into. :)

Yeah, based on Rose, I can see how people thought they were watching a show about, y'know, Rose, and her relationship with the Doctor. Which it was, for a while. But before that, it had been a show about Ian and Barbara and Jamie McCrimmon and Jo Grant and a whole heck of a lot of other people. Now it's about Amy and Rory. I guess if you didn't grow up with the idea of rotating Doctors and companions as something you just absorbed by osmosis it could come as a bit of a shock.

Locke would make an interesting companion. Yeah, "interesting" is probably the word for it. :)

That would be ... yes, I think 'interesting' is a good word for it. The Lost island is exactly the kind of place where the Doctor would land, though! Complete with wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey things for him to fix.

[astrogirl]

Yeah. It really is like no other TV series in that respect, but if you came in with "Rose," you had no way of seeing that. It didn't help that RTD kind of played up certain, um, misleading aspects of that relationship, although I will admit that I can see why at least some of it seemed like a good idea at the time. I mean, I actually kind of like New Who's increased focus on the companion, on the whole. And, well, people often see the show they want and expect to see, rather than the one that's actually on the screen

And I've always wanted to see a crossover in which the Doctor shows up on the Island. Heck, I think there were times watching the show when some part of my brain half expected him to. :)

[selenak]

RTD has probably been the writer to push this most strongly! (I mean, say what you will about the man's own Rose issues, he gave us Donna. The Doctor evidently loves her just as much, albeit in a different way.)

Absolutely, and also, he's anything but a monoshipper in his audio commentaries. In the ones for the Library episodes he's full of River Song love, and in "The Writer's Tale" after getting the Moff's first draft he writes excitedly to Benjamin Cook that in the newest Moffat eps there is a character who he believes might be the Doctor's future wife and is all "hooray!" and Welsh enthusiasm.

And the Elizabeth I. thing was his idea. (Which evently pleased Moffat since he kept bringing it up again in s5. *g*)

Besides: we all know Rusty's true OTP is Doctor/Master...

[doyle]

And if Catherine Tate hadn't agreed to come back as Donna, RTD was planning to write Ten falling madly in love at first sight with a new companion called Penny.

[andraste]

In the ones for the Library episodes he's full of River Song love, and in "The Writer's Tale" after getting the Moff's first draft he writes excitedly to Benjamin Cook that in the newest Moffat eps there is a character who he believes might be the Doctor's future wife and is all "hooray!" and Welsh enthusiasm.

Awwwwwww *g*. This is nice to hear; people should love River!

Besides: we all know Rusty's true OTP is Doctor/Master...

Quite. I think it's just as well for Rose that she was never around when the Master came to call; it would have been a lot more traumatic than finding out he was still emotionally attached to Sarah Jane.

I was also delighted to learn just yesterday that Doctor/Master is also Paul Cornell's OTP. He actually turned up at a pairing panel the Redemption, and when the fangirls looked at him funny pointed out that he wouldn't be there if he didn't think they were an item. When questioned about what was going on in Scream of the Shalka he stated that they were 'so doing it'. (Not that I could ever think of another explanation for the Doctor building a Master android, but it's nice to have word of god on that.)

[selenak]

Here's the RTD-Benjamin Cook exchange when River first shows up in "The Writer's Tale":

BC: "So you don't know what's coming in 4.10 until you read Steven's first draft? Doesn't he tell you? Do you really fight the spoilers?

RTD: "It's funny, isn't it? I ask him not to spoiler me. He's written 4.9 already, so I've read that. It's called Silence in the Library and it has a character in it who I'm just sure is the Doctor's wife (!!!), but I don't like to ask. I want to find out in the second episode, like a viewer. It's the closest that I get to experiencing brand new Doctor Who. Not for long, though..."

Bless his fanboy heart. That's one of many reasons why the Rusty versus Moff stuff in debates annoys me. Unless they're really good at faking it, they love each other's writing. (And each other.)

I think it's just as well for Rose that she was never around when the Master came to call; it would have been a lot more traumatic than finding out he was still emotionally attached to Sarah Jane.

No kidding. I don't think anything in Rose's time with the Doctor gave her any kind of preparation for something like the Doctor/Master relationship, or indeed the Doctor's darker side.

[lizbee]

...even the New Who only people must have watched Girl in the Fireplace and School Reunion.

I once got into a brief debate with someone (butterfly, I believe) who insisted that "School Reunion" was about how Rose was different from Sarah Jane and all the rest, and that the Doctor would never leave her, and GitF didn't count because Moffat wrote it, and because it contradicted the point of "School Reunion".

Needless to say, it turned into a bit of an exercise in futility.

[andraste]

I once got into a brief debate with someone (butterfly, I believe) who insisted that "School Reunion" was about how Rose was different from Sarah Jane and all the rest, and that the Doctor would never leave her, and GitF didn't count because Moffat wrote it, and because it contradicted the point of "School Reunion".

*facepalm*

Needless to say, it turned into a bit of an exercise in futility.

... I can only imagine. There's a reason I've only ever posted my opinions about this issue behind a lock.

[selenak]

It does sound like her. But she's not the only one who seems to think Moffat somehow hypnotized Davies (THE SILENCE!!!!) into signing off on his episodes with lots of enthusiastic endorsement. No idea how they explain the Elizabeth I. shagging, though, since there was no Moff in sight when RTD penned that line. Or, you know, RTD-written lines like "and I've been alone ever since" (the destruction of Gallifrey), spoken to the Master in "Sound of Drums", which presumably includes Rose in the definition of "alone".

[lizbee]

But she's not the only one who seems to think Moffat somehow hypnotized Davies (THE SILENCE!!!!) into signing off on his episodes with lots of enthusiastic endorsement.

Indeed; I've seen meta that suggests that Big Bad Macho Straight Guy Moffat bullied Poor Effeminate Davies into not only not editing his episodes, but including things like Elizabeth I. It does a disservice to both men, imho.

[astrogirl]

Oh, jesus, are we not over that yet?

[andraste]

Oh, jesus, are we not over that yet?

Every time I think this is all in the past, I click on a review linked from the newsletter or a message board post and there it is again. I am starting to think that in twenty years time there will be a contingent of fans who think that 2005 and 2006 are the only bits that count as proper Doctor Who. Even weirder than the ones who insist that it all went to hell once colour came along, or the Hinchcliffe fanatics!

[astrogirl]

Who fandom is just so very, very bizarre.

[andraste]

Who fandom is just so very, very bizarre.

And something tells me that it is only going to get weirder with the passage of time! It boggles me to think that there are budding fans out there now who didn't watch David Tennant. (Most of them are probably six years old, but still.)

[astrogirl]

Oh, man, what a thought!

[andraste]

Somewhere, there are kids running around a school yard pretending to be Daleks who have only a vague idea that there were ever Doctors that came before Matt Smith!

[ravenskyewalker.livejournal.com]

*wails and gnashes teeth*

I'm also tired of the fans who think that Tennant was The Best Doctor Ever and need to whine about how terrible Matt Smith is and how much they want the Tenth Doctor back. I mean, it's odd... the Eleventh Doctor is the first Doctor I've liked since maybe the Eighth Doctor, because he actually feels like the Doctor to me. But that's my problem.

[andraste]

*wails and gnashes teeth*

Every time I think this issue has gone away, it seems to regenerate!

I'm also tired of the fans who think that Tennant was The Best Doctor Ever and need to whine about how terrible Matt Smith is and how much they want the Tenth Doctor back.

I like Ten and Eleven, so I spend a lot of time facepalming recently *g*.